Holder DNA Genealogy Project - Group D

Descendants of William Presley Holder, Solomon Holder and allied families

 

The D1 group in this chart is distinguished from groups D2 and D3 by the scores at marker DYS19. Since this marker is not one of those observed to mutate rapidly, we think this indicates that there are two distinct branches of these tree going back at least to the 18th century.

 

D1a: USA: Sample 005 is from the line William Presley Holder (ca. 1780/1780 NC or TN - ca. 1830, Jefferson Co. TN) > Eppa Samuel Holder (1821-1884) Knox Co. TN to Caldwell Co. MO > James Holder (1845-1900) Ray and Caldwell Counties MO. Sample 033 has an identical pattern over 25 markers, and traces back to John Presley Holder (1813-1873). The DNA evidence supports a common ancestor born sometime in the 1700s, but we still need to establish the relationship of John Presley Holder b. 1813 to William Presley Holder b. ca. 1780.

D1b: USA: Jeptha Holder (b. 1784), Pittsylvania Co. VA and Randolph Co. NC > David Meredith Holder b. 1823 > David Michael Holder b. 1867. This sample differs from D1a only at the rapidly mutating marker DYS464a.

D1c: USA: Sample 021 is from a descendant of John Holder (d. White Co. TN 1863), thought to be a son of Davis Holder of Pittsylvania Co. VA. This sample has 15 at DYS19, placing it in the D1 group, but differs from the D1a and D1b samples by having 13 rather than 12 at the rapidly changing DYS439 marker. Sample 035 matches this one at all but marker 442 (see markers 26-37 at the bottom of the page). We don't yet know precisely how these two submitters are related. Sample 079 shares the distinctive 13 at DYS439, but resembles 024 in having 20 rather than 16 at DYS464d, and has the consensus value of 16 at DYS458.

D1d: Sample 024, also with a White Co. TN association, has two differences from 021 in rapidly changing markers. We need more samples to determine how far back these differences go.

D1e: USA: Gabriel Holder m. Rhoda Reed> Laban Rice Holder m. Armilda Lair > Jeremiah C. Holder m. Mary Ann Kelsey. This sample differs from the consensus D1 pattern only in the rapidly changing DYS464 markers.

D1f: USA: Perry Co. TN. Since sample 063 doesn't have a clear connection to any of the other D1 families, and has unique mutations, it is defining a new subgroup.

D1g: USA: Surry Co. NC. Sample 064 has also been traced to Davis Holder but differs sufficiently from the other samples to warrant separation into another new subgroup.

D1h: USA: Sample 096 is from a descendant of Daniel Holder, born Virginia in 1796, lived in several Kentucky counties; descendants in Texas and Oklahoma. This sample has 15 at DYS19, placing it in the D1 group, but it isn't a perfect match for any other D1 sample.

 

 

The D2 group samples differ only in rapidly changing markers, and it appears that some of these changes occurred recently, probably in the 19th or even the 20th century. The division into two sets based on 16 vs 20 at one of the DYS 464 markers may be a somewhat older change, perhaps in the 18th century, but both sets have samples thought to trace back to Solomon Holder, whose children were born beginning in the 1790s, so this assumption may not be valid.

The DYS 464 markers are a set of related repeats, usually a group of four, but sometimes more, as in the case of a few of our samples. FTDNA reports them in order of increasing length, which obscures the exact nature of the mutations that may have occurred. This issue is discussed further below.

Geographically the D2 samples divide into a Kentucky cluster and a cluster associated especially with Jackson Co., Alabama and Franklin Co., Tennessee (which are adjacent to each other), but neither location seems to be exclusive to a particular group of Holder families. Sample 054 traces back to northern Louisiana. The likely progenitors include:

    Col. John Holder (1744-1799) of Boonesboro KY. Sample 009 traces back to this ancestor. Sample 008, which traces back to Solomon Holder (ca. 1774-1849) of South Carolina and later Franklin Co. TN, matches it perfectly. However, the other putative descendants of Solomon Holder form a separate group, D2c.

    John Holder (ca. 1749-1830) and Agnes Bledsoe of Virginia, who have descendants in Jackson Co. AL and in Franklin Co. TN. Samples 045, 047, and 060 all have the name Bledsoe somewhere in this lineage, and all fall into group D2b. Sample 029 also claims descent from this couple but differs at markers DYS439 and DYS464d, so has been placed provisionally in group D2a. The other D2b samples (012, 037, 054, and 055) probably share a common ancestor in the 1700s, perhaps John and Agnes.

    Based on the family association with John Holder and Agnes Bledsoe, we would predict sample 040 will be D2b also. However, this donor will need to test markers 13-25 to confirm the prediction.

    More information on Bledsoe Holder, from Mary Urban [pdf file]

    Mary contributed this page to begin an online discussion of the D2 group. We invite other researchers to add files on their ancestors, either in this group or any others. Please send pdfs, Word documents, or text files, to Elizabeth Harris for posting.

    Solomon Holder of SC and Franklin Co. TN. Except for sample 008, Solomon's descendants seem to be falling into group D2c, defined by 17 rather than 16 at the rapidly changing marker DYS 458.

At the Holder gathering in North Carolina in 2008, we recommended that people in group D2 consider doing the "palindromic pack", one of the advanced test options available from Family Tree DNA. This set of tests was recommended to us by other group administrators because it includes some rapidly changing markers that can help divide recently diverging family lines into discrete branches. Three samples were submitted for this test, numbers 008, 037 and 047. For ten of the markers tested, the results were identical for all three samples, but the DYF399X results showed some variation that may eventually be informative. Subsequently five other people have ordered the DYF 399X test. These allowed us to determine that sample 047 probably has the modal value for the DYF 399 set of three markers, and that samples 008 and 037 have each diverged from that pattern. However, there's not enough information yet to establish when the secondary mutations occurred in those samples. It would be very helpful to get results from this test for other group D samples, including D1 as well as D2. We have some funds that could be used to help pay for this. Please contact Elizabeth Harris if you're interested.

 

Formerly we identified sample 012 as a unique group, D3, based on markers DYS464b and DYS464c having the value of 17 rather than the 16 that is characteristic of D2 samples. These markers have now been retested by FTDNA at our request, and have been corrected to 16. This puts sample 012 solidly within the D2 group, consistent with the paper genealogy.

 

D4: USA: Dempsey Holder of Wilkes Co. NC
This sample differed enough from groups D1 and D2 to warrant preliminary classification as a separate category. The differences from the other D family samples are in rapidly changing markers, however. Based on having 14 at DYS19, we think it probably shares a common ancestor with the D2 group.


 

The D group belongs to Haplogroup R1b1b2.

 

 
 
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

ID#

Group

DYS
393

DYS
390

DYS
19

DYS
391

DYS
385a
DYS
385b

DYS
426

DYS
388

DYS
439

DYS
389-1

DYS
392

DYS
389-2

DYS
458
DYS
459a
DYS
459b

DYS
455

DYS
454

DYS
447

DYS
437

DYS
448

DYS
449
DYS
464a
DYS
464b
DYS
464c

DYS
464d

005

D1a

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

033

D1a

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

018

D1b

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

14

16

16

16

021

D1c

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

035

D1c

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

079

D1c?

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

024

D1d

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

15

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

019

D1e

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

15

16

16

070

D1e?

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

30

15

15

16

16

063

D1f

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

23

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

064

D1g

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

15

13

30

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

096

D1h

13

23

15

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

 

008

D2a

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

009

D2a

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

029

D2a

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

16

012

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

037

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

045

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

047

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

054

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

055

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

060

D2b

13

23

14

11

12

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

062

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

068

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

072

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

19

077

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

078

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

080

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

082

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

086

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

19

089

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

100

D2b

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

16

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

022

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

046

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

050

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

069

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

071

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

092

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

098

D2c

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

17

9

10

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

16

16

20

 
 

040

D2?

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

058

D2?

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

14

13

29

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

023

D4

13

23

14

11

11

14

12

12

13

14

13

29

16

9

9

11

11

24

15

19

29

15

15

16

16

 

The value marked in red was previously reported erroneously as 16.

Sample 050 has six copies of DYS 464 rather than the usual four. Family Tree DNA enumerates these as a-f in order of ascending values: 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 20. This results in only two matches out of four with the other D2 samples (15, 16, 16, 20). However, if it is assumed that two sets were duplicated, one of which was a 15 and the other a 16-copy set, then the results can be interpreted as a perfect match.

Samples 069, 070 and 071 all have five copies of DYS 464 rather than four. In each case the extra copy is 16.

Our hypothesis has been confirmed by an advanced test of samples 050 and 069. When reduced to the four fundamental DYS markers, each is identical to the prevailing D2 pattern of 15-16-16-20. (For those of you who are into the details of this analysis, the pattern is 15c-16c-16g-20c.)

Markers 26 through 37 have been tested on the following samples. So far these results aren't very informative, but eventually testing additional samples at the 37-marker level may show when the values marked in bold diverged from the others, and thus confirm branch points in the family lineages.

 

 
 
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37

ID#

Group

DYS
460

GATA
H4

YCA
IIa

YCA
IIb

DYS
456

DYS
607

DYS
576
DYS
570
CDY
  a
CDY
  b

DYS
442

DYS
438

005

D1a

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

033

D1a

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

018

D1a

10

11

19

23

15

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

021

D1c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

035

D1c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

12

12

079

D1c

10

11

19

23

16

*

*

*

37

*

*

12

019

D1e

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

070

D1e?

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

39

13

12

063

D1f

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

064

D1g

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

39

13

12

096

D1h

10

11

19

23

16

15

18

17

37

38

12

12

 

008

D2a

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

009

D2a

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

029

D2a

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

 

012

D2b

10

11

19

23

17

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

037

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

045

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

18

17

37

38

13

12

047

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

054

D2b

10

11

19

23

15

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

055

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

060

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

062

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

37

13

12

068

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

072

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

077

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

078

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

37

12

12

080

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

082

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

37

13

12

086

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

14

17

17

37

37

13

12

089

D2b

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

 

022

D2c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

046

D2c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

36

38

13

12

050

D2c

10

11

19

24

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

069

D2c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

071

D2c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

092

D2c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

098

D2c

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

 

023

D4

10

11

19

23

16

15

17

17

37

38

13

12

 

Sample 079 was tested at Ancestry.com rather than Family Tree DNA. The markers indicated by * were not scored.  

 

Markers 38 through 67 have been tested on the following samples. The uniform results support the relationship of the various group D families, and suggest that the common ancestor of groups D1 and D2 very likely lived within historic times.

 
 
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47

ID#

Group

DYS
531

DYS
578

DYS
395
S1a

DYS
395
S1b

DYS
590

DYS
537

DYS
641

DYS
472

DYS
406
S1

DYS
511

005

D1a

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

018

D1b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

019

D1e

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

008

D2a

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

029

D2a

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

037

D2b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

072

D2b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

077

D2b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

092

D2c

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

 

 
 
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

ID#

Group

DYS
425

DYS
413a

DYS
413b

DYS
557

DYS
594

DYS
436

DYS
490

DYS
534

DYS
450

DYS
444

DYS
481

DYS
520

DYS
446

005

D1a

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

018

D1b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

019

D1e

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

008

D2a

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

029

D2a

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

037

D2b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

072

D2b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

077

D2b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

14

092

D2c

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

 

 
 
61
62
63
64
65
66
67

ID#

Group

DYS
617

DYS
568

DYS
487

DYS
572

DYS
640

DYS
492

DYS
565

005

D1a

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

018

D1b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

019

D1e

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

008

D2a

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

029

D2a

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

037

D2b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

072

D2b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

077

D2b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

092

D2c

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

 

 

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